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LogicCurve

Karen
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New Prediction
LogicCurve
made their 28th forecast (view all):
Probability
Answer
Forecast Window
5% (0%)
Yes
Sep 30, 2024 to Mar 30, 2025
95% (0%)
No
Sep 30, 2024 to Mar 30, 2025

Staying low due to the logistics of "declaration," aspects of the question criteria (and the fact this is a continued war).  However "new front" is questionable.  (Read more below).

Israel is going to engage in a "limited ground invasion."  I believe the terminology of "limited" is a purposeful descriptor - as it delineates this is not an all-out-war, but one that has objectives and goals and a stopping point. 

Israel's Defence Minister has stated "I believe we are at the start of a new phase in the war."  Which verbiage of reveals this is not a new war, but the same war Israel has already been involved in.  

However, the "more details" section of the question's resolution criteria informs the question will close as "yes" if there is a "new front."   The information from Google AI, and wikipedia provide multiple situations that describe "front."  So, it is uncertain if a ground incursion into Lebanon as a "new phase" is the same thing as a "new front."  

Israeli defence minister announces 'new phase in war' moving north

https://youtu.be/DKGomxrrkxM?si=HmoImD4MsrBDfSD_


Front (military)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_(military)#cite_note-DOD-1

It is already been stated Israel is now fighting battles on "3 fronts" and the question hasn't closed, so it appears that this is all the same war towards multiple Iranian proxies with different gang names. 


Global National: Sept. 29, 2024 | Middle East conflict grows to 3rd front as Israel strikes Houthis

https://youtu.be/YT_V6rqnuj8?si=0bJbeRAKLWUjseXm


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I lowered the forecast for "yes" a few points,  but I think the forecasters are underestimating how aggressive China is with mindset and subsequent activities.  Agreed that the USA is trying to thwart China from building a base in Gabon.  But, China is not easily deterred from doing what it wants.  They have multifarious infrastructure building activities and projects lined up with China, and investment of many billions.  They are planning on conducting military operations and training with and for African countries. 


The article below provides info, pulling out some highlights: 

"Chinese President Xi Jinping met individually with thirty-six African delegations: from Botswana, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Liberia, Libya, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Republic of Congo, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe."

[...]

"Expansion of the Global Security Initiative: In a speech at FOCAC, Xi also announced new security commitments on the continent via the Global Security Initiative, one of the country’s newer frameworks aimed at increasing its influence in the global security architecture. In Africa specifically, China’s president promised to provide training for six thousand military personnel and one thousand law enforcement officers, invite African military officers to China, increase joint military exercises, coordinate with African partners to provide security for joint projects, and offer grants in military assistance.

"An Atlantic Naval Base: Amid speculation that China is seeking to build an Atlantic naval base on Gabon’s coast, China and Gabon also signed multiple bilateral agreements to fund public infrastructure projects during FOCAC. Several experts have highlighted the growing U.S.-China security competition occurring on Africa’s Atlantic coast. Reports suggest the United States is working to prevent any potential base, with U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell warning Gabon’s interim President Brice Oligui Nguema in July that a proposed Chinese military training facility in the country would risk an encroaching presence from Chinese forces, as well as reports that the United States has put together a $5 million security assistance package for Gabon ahead of a visit from Nguema to Washington, DC, in the fall."

[...]

"Infrastructure Commitments: Among the dozens of new projects and agreements announced at FOCAC, the largest were aimed at Kenya, Nigeria, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. Several agreements provided funds to complete rail and highway projects, including funding for the Lagos-Calabar railway in Nigeria, extending Kenya’s Standard Guage Railway and fifteen road construction projects, a high-speed rail project in Morocco, and signing a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Tanzania and Zambia to revitalize the TAZARA railway line.

[...]

"Zambia’s President Hakainde Hichilema signed three MoU with China’s state power company, Power China, and an agreement with Chinese firm Datang to invest in and construct a two-hundred-twenty-megawatt renewable energy project, in addition to building two solar plants in the country. Power China also agreed to support expanded rooftop solar panel use in Zambia. Benin, Burundi, the Republic of Congo, Seychelles, and Zimbabwe all signed agreements to engage in (as yet unspecified) Belt and Road Initiative projects."


From September 27, 2024: 

China in Africa: September 2024

https://www.cfr.org/article/china-africa-september-2024



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LogicCurve
made their 27th forecast (view all):
Probability
Answer
Forecast Window
5% (0%)
Yes
Sep 30, 2024 to Mar 30, 2025
95% (0%)
No
Sep 30, 2024 to Mar 30, 2025

Unique news out of Lebanon today.  Lebanon is deploying its own army to rid the area of Hezbollah.  Hezbollah is banned!  Lebanon is requesting a ceasefire.   The original UN resolution (2006) calls for "a complete cessation of hostilities between Lebanon and Israel and the establishment of a demilitarized zone between the Blue Line (the boundary between Lebanon and Israel) and the Litani River, allowing only the Lebanese army and UNIFIL to possess weapons and military equipment in the area. (Anadolu Agency)."

"Mikati (Lebanese Prime Minister) says Lebanon is ready to fully implement the 2006 UN Security Council Resolution 1701 and deploy the Lebanese army south of the river, which lies about 30 km (around 20 miles) from Lebanon’s southern border.

Hezbollah is barred under UN Security Council Resolution 1701 from maintaining a military presence south of the Litani, however the terror group has blatantly violated that resolution (Times of Israel)."


Lebanon PM ready to implement 2006 deal on Hezbollah's armed presence south of Litani River

Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/lebanon-hold-session-elect-president-after-ceasefire-caretaker-pm-says-2024-09-30/

Lebanon says ready to implement UN Resolution 1701, deploy army south of Litani River

‘We affirm our agreement and pledge to implement the cease-fire immediately with Israel,’ caretaker Premier Najib Mikati says

Anadolu Agency: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/lebanon-says-ready-to-implement-un-resolution-1701-deploy-army-south-of-litani-river/3346303

Lebanese PM says willing to deploy army south of Litani River, fully implement UN resolution

Times of Israelhttps://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/lebanese-pm-says-willing-to-deploy-army-south-of-litani-river-fully-implement-un-resolution/


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Parsing verbiage cited in news channels - All-Out-War:

Israel is already at "war" and the behavior between Israel and Hezboallah has been described as an extension of the declared war between Israel and Iranian back militia sects (Hamas and Hezbollah).  Designated by Hezbollah as the "northern front."  Hezbollah and Hamas have had a combined effort in the war with Israel.  This war was already declared by Israel. 


Cited in news articles and broadcasts is a recent reoccurring statement: "All-out-war."  Such as in this comment "Israel and Hezbollah are locked in their most intense round of fighting in decades, teetering on the brink of all-out war"  From:  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-30/iron-dome-hezbollah-rockets-missiles-conflict-israel-lebanon/104394246 


An "All-Out-War" in short (definition provided by AI (Google) stating:

An all-out war is a military conflict where the contenders are  willing to make any sacrifice to achieve a complete victory. It is also known as a total war, which is a war with no limits in its scope.   [and]  "All-out" can also be used as an adjective or adverb to describe actions that are carried out with a lot of energy and determination, using all available resources. For example, you might describe a price war or trade war as "all-out."    "Total War" is described here :  https://www.britannica.com/topic/total-war ;   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war  

In contrast - is the concept of "Limited War."   "A limited war is one in which the belligerents do not expend all of the resources at their disposal, whether human, industrial, agricultural, military, natural, technological, or otherwise in a specific conflict.  This may be to preserve those resources for other purposes, or because it might be more difficult for the participants to use all of an area's resources rather than part of them. Limited war is the opposite concept to total war (Wikipedia). " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_war 


Summary: 
  • It appears in an "All-Out-War" nothing is off the table - including nuclear weapons.  Every method available to win and subdue the enemy is, can be used, to serve the purpose of destroying the enemy.  
  • A "Limited War" on the other hand appears to have an end goal in sight.  There is a stopping point of the conflict once objectives are achieved.   
  • It appears that Israel is involved in a "Limited War" as Israel has goals and objectives it has stated 1) Rid southern Lebanon of Hezbollah 2) Return displaced Israelis  and more:   3) Rid Gaza of Hamas;  and 4) Return the hostages kept by Hamas.
Recommendation for this question:  

It seems this question would be better served by providing a description of "All-Out-War" or "Total War" vs "Limited War" and inquire of the forecasters whether this current Limited War will turn into an All-Out-War.  

The reason the question should be re-worded is due to the fact there is now information Israel is already in a declared war (with Hamas and Hezbollah) and the operation in Lebanon is part of the same war .

The Resolution Criteria of the question is confusing, as it is asking forecasters to consider whether this already declared war is going to become a different war, or type of war - without directly posing the question.   Leaving forecasters to try to figure out what type of situation is being queried.  I.e., Figure out if Israel is going to change goals?    If the question posed was "Will the current war operation between Israel vs Hamas/Hezbollah turn into an "All-Out'War" (Total War) by the date in question,  my forecast would be different.  



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New Prediction
LogicCurve
made their 8th forecast (view all):
Probability
Answer
Forecast Window
10% (0%)
Yes
Sep 29, 2024 to Sep 29, 2025
90% (0%)
No
Sep 29, 2024 to Sep 29, 2025
Confirmed previous forecast
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Global news sources reporting - Biden's statement Re: The operation that eliminated Nasrallah et al, was part of an already in play larger conflict/war with Hamas.   The attention of Biden's statements in credible news sources is integral to the framing of the conflict situation.  There is an united view that this operation in Lebanon resulting from Hezbollah's aggressive acts towards Israel is not a new war.  It is an operation part of the continued war with Hamas, which began on October 8, 2023. 

Questions:  Will an incursion of Israel's ground troops into Lebanon be a reason to declare war?  What would be the reason that a different style or tactic would cause a change in declaration of war, or declaration of a "new front" beginning? 

"Biden noted that the operation to take out Nasrallah took place in the broader context of the conflict that began with Hamas’ massacre of Israelis on Oct. 7, 2023.

“Nasrallah, the next day, made the fateful decision to join hands with Hamas and open what he called a ‘northern front’ against Israel,” Biden said in a statement."

From: 

PBS: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-calls-israeli-strike-killing-hezbollah-leader-nasrallah-a-measure-of-justice

also in varied global news sources: 

Time:  https://time.com/7026258/president-biden-statement-israeli-strike-killing-hezbollah-leader-hassan-nasrallah/

Euro News: https://www.euronews.com/2024/09/29/us-president-joe-biden-describes-nasrallahs-killing-as-a-measure-of-justice 

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LogicCurve
made their 16th forecast (view all):
Probability
Answer
Forecast Window
5% (-20%)
Yes
Sep 28, 2024 to Sep 28, 2025
95% (+20%)
No
Sep 28, 2024 to Sep 28, 2025

Matching the 6 month forecast.  The operation between Israel and Hezbollah is considered part of the same (but broader) conflict (which was a declared war) between Israel and Hamas.  It is more likely that covert operations be undertaken.  

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LogicCurve
made their 26th forecast (view all):
Probability
Answer
Forecast Window
5% (-20%)
Yes
Sep 28, 2024 to Mar 28, 2025
95% (+20%)
No
Sep 28, 2024 to Mar 28, 2025

Biden calling the conflict between Israel / Hezbollah part of the same conflict that began between Israel and Hamas on October 7, 2023. The war-like behavior forecasters have been observing is most likely not the beginning of a new war at this time.   According to Biden - Nasrallah connected with  Hamas to join the war against Israel in a "northern front against Israel."  

'"Biden noted that the operation to take out Nasrallah took place in the broader context of the conflict that began with Hamas’ massacre of Israelis on Oct. 7, 2023.  “Nasrallah, the next day, made the fateful decision to join hands with Hamas and open what he called a ‘northern front’ against Israel,” Biden said in a statement.

From: https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240928-world-figures-react-death-hezbollah-leader-hassan-nasrallah-lebanon

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Comment deleted on Sep 28, 2024 06:54PM UTC

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Israel's objectives involve the return of Israel's displaced citizens, and the removal of Hezbollah from southern Lebanon.  

Netanyahu, at UN, vows that Israel will keep ‘degrading Hezbollah’ until its objectives are met

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-lebanon-united-nations-12e02fd82f35a8438aa907ca6762bac0

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